The last day I’ll ever be questioned…

“I don’t understand. I used it last week to by some 4-hour Sudafed!” ~Sudafed Man”

He admitted to buying some pseudoephedrine the previous week. Doesn’t the purchase restriction work out to about a two- to four-weeks’ supply?

Nah. It’s 3.6 grams per day and 9 grams per month. Theoretically, you can by a 12-hour PSE package per day for 3 days. Then, you can’t buy any for the next 27 days. He was eligible to buy at least two more packages so long as it was less than 3.6 grams.

To be honest you kind of seem like an asshole. I understand that he was interfering but his job is to make the customer happy, just like its your job to sell controlled substances.

Also your so worried about that guy making meth when really all it takes is a look on the shelf for “desoxyn” to know your selling meth to kids with ADHD.

Anyways interesting story all the same…

That’s somewhat the point of the post — I’m a dick and went a little far — But, I proved my point to all front end employees (and you can bet he will tell them all). I’m also well aware that methamphetamine is a drug that can be dispensed. However, you’re comparing apples and basketballs. Desoxyn is a small dose and monitored by a licensed physician. Street methamphetamine is made with ammonia and a ton of other gross shit you would identify as poisonous. Street meth is also about 50 times the dose of Desoxyn.

Also, it’s general knowledge in the pharmacy world that we are sick and tired of non-pharmacists questioning our decisions — like a patient complaining to the front-end manager about us saying no on refilling a Vicodin early or dispensing the Vicodin and not the Amoxicillin on an ER script. I had just had my fill — and in my small store, the front end employees should’ve known better.

Who made you the drug Czar? You can’t blame the people making/buying. Blame the weak minded druggies.

I shouldn’t blame people for being ugly either, but I do.

I love it when one of our customers starts bitching about something and we have to get a manager back for a refund or exchange, because all the while they’re flapping their gums to the managers about stuff we as a whole, or my pharmacy manager, has done.

The older customers are the funniest. After they run their mouths enough, they leave visibly vindicated, or so they think, because they’ve told the nice manager-man about it, and The Customer Is Always Right.

Fool.

The managers have no authority! You have a beef with us, with my Pharmacy Manager? You’re going to take ALL your business elsewhere? And you’re going to go to Corporate? Go ahead, because Corporate just drops it right back into my Pharmacy Manager’s lap, and suddenly you’re right back where you started from, aren’t you?

But you put us in our place.

Sorry to tell you, our chain is not going to wither and die because you moved your Lisinopril and HCTZ to Wal-Mart. You are not important. And you’re not always right, either.

I deal with the same crackheads who want to buy the generic Claritin-D. I just increase the price on them.. :)

And to all the plebs who think that TAestP was a dick: What goes on in the pharmacy is the pharmacists call, not some minimum wage making “manager”. Its not his license on the line. We don’t tell you how to do your job, so dont tell us how to do ours. Tell the manager that unless they are making meth out of shampoo and shaving cream, he shouldn’t worry about it.

Makes me glad that I work for an independent. I think this whole sudafed law is utter bullshit and just a waste of everyones time.

Funny how this guy immediately assumed that if its good enough for checks it should be good enough for drugs also.

I have yet to see a Manager attempt to run over the Pharmacist’s decision in the Wal-mart where I work. Although, I only am a part-time technician while I finish my pre-pharm reqs, I applaud your move. I do not believe non-pharmacy types should interfere with Pharmacy related problems such as these. As far as I can tell, the Pharmacist has a manager, and a general oversight manager who monitors there activities behind the counter.

When I become a Pharmacist, I will act accordingly. I cannot completely agree with the language you used but I was not in your situation. Frustration can get the best of any person. However, if it was as bad as I can imagine, I’m sure I would’ve used the same discourse to prove a point. I would at least apologize to the manager for being so blunt, but express how serious the issue is to you as a Pharmacist and tell him to uphold your views on this.

Or, leave it like it is and it will go your way with some intimidation on your side.

Either way works for you.

However, this is why you are the *angriest*. I like your blog very much.

“Who made you the drug Czar? You can’t blame the people making/buying. Blame the weak minded druggies.”

This is irresponsible, and you appear to be one of the “weak minded druggies”. Don’t you understand that people creating this drugs are doing it for money, and don’t give two shits about who it hurts. They hope people will want to come back and score some more. Look at Hawaii to see what Meth can do to a culture, and tell me to blame those you use. There wouldn’t be people using, if it wasn’t manufactured.

People would be nudists, if there was no textile industry, and clothes weren’t sown together everyday.

It is not like pharmaceuticals. Prescription drugs are intended to help cure or aid in the treatment of an ailment in the human body. Of course, you have people who grow dependent and abuse but it’s not intended to be that way.

Your local drug dealer wants you to get hooked on illegal narcotics. By doing this, you are promising them a return investment hopefully. That is, unless you die.

He’s more of a drug czar than some stupid front-end manager. I’m also tired of managers coming back to the pharmacy to overrule a pharmacists decision on something they know absolutely dick about.

Perhaps, I would have been a little bit more polite about it. However, politeness often times gets you nowhere in this world. People tend not to listen unless you make it excessively clear to them… especially dumbass managers who think they’re on some kind of power trip. Sometimes, you just have to let them know who’s really in charge.

While I would agree that you were a bit harsh, all of the comments so far seem to think you were just wrong. I disagree. I am not a pharm so maybe my opinion does not matter, but why would someone get bent out of shape because they can’t get Pseudafed? I won’t even ask the ass mgr where something is on a shelf. I certainly would not bother him/her for something like this. Once you mentioned DEA, the ass mgr should have apologized to you and said sorry to the customer with something like “We can’t afford for the feds to be on us. You understand how it is. Please get the license fixed and we will be happy to fulfill your request. Just for you I will comp you a soda for the trouble.” I work in retail and there are other ways to please a customer besides just giving in to whatever they want.

Ya know, that’s a good option — I never even thought about giving away something else. I may try that next time. I’ve never been one for making deals or concessions, but the way you put it makes it seem like a feasible option for me in the future. Thanks dude!

PS - I also like the proposed response from the manager. I’m gonna write that on a piece of paper and tape it next to the time clock…haha!

LOVE IT!! I wish I had the balls and the quick wit to come up with a response like that. When I get that pissed my brain freezes- way to go for defending your title dude!!

In case somebody misunderstood what I was saying, I believe The Angriest was correct in vocaling his opinion. The drug czar comment was pointed towards the original poster, Finlandia.

Thanks, and good day.

Why can’t I work with a Pharmacist like you? All my Pharmacist’s would be scared to even think about refusing a sale. At my Pharmacy you don’t even need a valid ID to pick up Vicodin. Just a social security # and there you go. I just refused a sale of a script to a “DUMB…” and our store manager and Pharmacist just went ahead and gave it to this “man” anyways because he got loud! I stood there like an IDIOT. We need more Pharmacists like you for this profession to even think about getting the respect they deserve. Everybody walks all over the Rph because most of them are just very week minded.

I always tell people who throw a fit about Sudafed or Claritin-D that if they want to avoid the hassle of ID checks and quantity limits that they should get their doctor to write a prescription. I’m pretty sure that circumvents the OTC purchase limits in every state. It’s not like insurance is going to pay for it, but they weren’t going to anyway.

Most of the time this shuts the meth-makers up and everybody else thanks me.

Wow! I totally agree with you! Man, it sounds like your Sudafed law is harsh! In Ontario we just keep it behind the counter; no counting how much they use or anything.

Now, don’t get me started on front store staff. I moonlight at a large Canadian retail chain. Our store just put in a post office. The “postie” thinks it’s okay to put a sign “please go to the pharmacy” when she decides she needs a break, a pee or to just walk around.

Awesome stuff!! It’s sort of amusing in a way that these front end managers/shift supervisors think this way.

“Um..I didn’t go to college at all and I think you should give this person his Vicodin/Percocet.”

Thank God that at the store I work they do not even attempt to get involved in any type of patient complaint. They just refer them to the pharmacist in charge.

I wish our pharmacists were like this where I work.In our state the sudafed laws are very strict and when someone purchases it we input their id number into a state database and it keeps track of their purchases. If they have exceeded their limit it prints out a number that they can call and boy do they get pissy when they get the paper instead of the sudafed. They say thats impossible I haven’t purchased any since last month, baloney I say. In our state it is also dea regulation to take a photo id for any controlled substance and only dispense it to the person for who it is or a relative with the same name. So when Mrs Martin comes in looking for her husband Mr Jones percocet prescription we of course can not dispense it because the name is not the same. They get all mad and start complaining but its the law and I can not break the law I tell them. You can tell me your the presidents wife but until I see an id that has the same name I unfortunately can not dispense it to you.

Sudafed laws are pretty much national now thanks to the Combat Methamphetamine Enforcement Act. I wish that we had a statewide database though!

We’re also supposed to verify ID with all controlled Rxs. We’re a little more laid back with that, especially in my small area where everyone seems to know everyone. I usually play that card when I suspect foul play or if a patient has *EVER* told me that “they did not pick up that prescription” — they get a after their last name in the computer.

Our store manager/owner is a pharmacist… That takes care of pretty much every problem… Front store staff come back to pick up deliveries and chat and that’s pretty much it… Makes for a good work environment… :)

In Australia we don’t have this problem as the pharmacist is boss.
With regard to the pseudo runners - In Australia one of our organisations developed Project Stop http://www.projectstop.com.au/ It is being trialled in kansas shortly as “methShield”

Like the posts. Glad I am not in retail any more!

Robbo

Thankfully I only occasionally have to deal with the idiocy of low level supermarket management over here in the UK. I find it quite amusing to inform them of the clause in their contract about going against the pharmacist in professional pharmacy matters - the clause basically states that if they piss about with me then their ass is fired automatically for gross misconduct. We also don’t trust them with keys to our pharmacy - they get sealed away from their grubby mitts after hours so they can’t open up the ’sweetshop’ in the middle of the night and give out stuff to anyone.

Simply put you are a pharmacist NOT a doctor, NOT a DEA agent, and certainly NOT an elected official charged with the care of the public. Your job is to decipher a Dr’s handwriting and dispense what you are told in the proper dosage. Most people in your craft today are being replaced by computers because apparently a trained chimp could do the job just as well. You like to put yourself on some higher plane thinking that you are a member of the medical field when the extent of your knowledge can be obtained by the reading of a PDR. You are in a customer service based industry. It has always been a customer service based industry. Only through the bastardization of the industry by power hungry idiots who couldn’t hack it in real medical school has it become anything more. You have been given “POWER” by the DEA to judge people you have never meet and impose a sentence upon them based on 0 fact or evidence. On nothing more than your gut feeling that this man was a “Scumbag” you decided to refuse him service. And if you can even say with a straight face that you would have treated Little Miss Blue Hair the same way I applaud you sir, you should think about politics. Keep your double standards and you Napoleonic Complex to yourself and get back to servicing the customer that pays your friggin check. You are not some shining light of justice and righteousness. You my friend are a bean counter, nothing more. I respect the fact that you were “Doing your job” but it is high time that you and others in your field of vocation learned what their job is.

Here is my response to this mindless comment: http://www.theangriestpharmacist.com/2008/09/29/lengthy-reply-to-an-ignorant-commenter/

Wow! I’m one of those annoying front end managers… but my company requires mgrs to be ptcb certified. You would think this would result in being knowledgable about the proffession. I am a huge supporter of my pharmacy and staff. I will back my pharmacist on every issue and my staff knows it. I pay a lot of lip service and take a lot of crap from patients but the pharmacists decision rules. I also have a firm rule about cussing/yelling at my staff - you will be escorted off the property and we will transfer our your scripts asap.
Keep telling it like it is!

I am a pharmacy tech, and if I decide not to make a sale of pseudometh, the manager of the store himself is not changing my mind. He will have to talk to the RPh, and convince him. Then the RPh can tell me to make the sale. The managers handle the money, the RPhs handle the drugs. Final.

I would also like to say that Mr. Old Fashioned is a complete idiot with no knowledge of the profession. I hope he marked the check below that notifies him that I said this. Because I would like to confir with him further.

Well, his email is listed — just send him an email!

Both you and the manager should follow the law. If the law indeed is how you state it, you are completely in the right. However, if on the other hand the law did not state what it does about cracked licenses, you would not have had a right to make your unilateral judgment. In that case the manager would be within his rights to sell the PSE item to the customer himself.

You’re wrong in so many ways. First, I told you a DEA agent told me this. I seriously doubt a federal agent would make up something like that — and it seems like a reasonable law to me. Will a state trooper ticket for that? Hell no — but I’d be it’s a law.

Finally, in my state, I can deny a prescription for any reason. Therefore, I can deny the sale of a controlled substance for any reason. Even if the reason is, “you look like a scuzball.” Now, that doesn’t fit into the successful business model, and the customer can complain to my manager (who will side with me — regardless of how insane my reasoning is due to the ridiculous pharmacist shortage in my area). So, in closing — I still win.

As i said, if it is the law in your state, you are completely in the right. The requirement to have a pharmacy license does not appear in the Combat Methamphetamine Act of 2005, (all that is required is that each retailer/seller self-certify with the DEA, which does involve employee training but not a specific license). If your state has this requirement, it is not universal. If, then there were no cracked license provision, and the manager happened to be on the list of trained employees, and again would say that he would have the right to tender the sale himself. I guess your only recourse then, as you said, would be to quit.

I do want to make clear, though, that I have no problem whatsoever with you using the license law to deny a druggie a sale. If I were in your shoes I would do the same thing. I am sure you know the laws in your state and do not go over the line when making a professional judgment. However my point is simply that what you did may not apply in every situation and every area. If the situation was different then you, or someone else, would have had to decide whether or not to bend the law.

Ahh — I assumed the CMEA said you must have a license. I looked it up and it appears that a technician has one-upped me — for the first time ever on this site. It must be my company’s self-certification policy that you must have a pharmacy license to sell it.

Consider yourself lucky…:-)

Dear Angry:
I read your statement and have some comments. One, if I were in your shoes and the manager came with an angry customer I would still refuse a sale. By selling this customer that one box you just taught him that it is OK to go to the front end and complain and that he will get something. I probably would have told the manager that I am not selling because the customer has an invalid license and it is illegal and see whether or not he wants to break the law to keep the customer happy and sell it to the customer himself (i found in the past that the front end managers will not challange me on legality of drug sales). Do not argue, just state the facts. Second, I was not sure why you were angry with the manager (it is their job to handle complaints and investigate both sides of the story). Thirdly, was it possible that the customer just had a stuffed up nose? Pseudoephedrine is sold behind the counter in my province, but no license necessary. People just ask for it. There is no good reason to refuse except when they are drunk or trying to buy a huge quantity or buying regularly over and over. Anyway, take care, good website

In the states, the Methamphetamine epidemic has put PSE behind the counter. It requires a valid, in-date license and sales are logged. People are limited to 3.6 grams per day and 9 grams per month. And, no, it is never a front-end manager’s place to question the judgment of the pharmacist, the operation of the pharmacy, or anything to do with pharmaceutical services. If someone complains to me that the sodas are too expensive or they were denied a sale of alcohol or tobacco because they don’t believe the license presented was theirs (or was otherwise invalid), I wouldn’t even consider running up front and questioning the manager’s discretion on that — it’s just not my call or place. He’s not a pharmacist. He’s not a technician. He has no authority whatsoever in the pharmacy. If my cash register breaks or malfunctions, he’s in the game. Otherwise, his ass can ride the bench. I’ve made that known in the past. It’s been discussed at their store meetings. It’s my store’s policy to just not fuck with me. Apparently, they decided that they wanted to test the issue, and now, I’ve made my point known yet again.

It’s high time people stopped treating their congestion with Sudafed as if it were an antihistamine and actually took some Loratadine every day — then we wouldn’t be in this position. Or, the legislature could wake the fuck up, ask a pharmacist, and make PSE a prescription only product as I’ve been saying for years.

Dear Angriest,
I would just like to shake your hand. I myself quit working in a retail pharmacy due to inept co-workers such as Dumb Ass. Manager.

I’m sorry, the last time I checked the State Board of Pharmacy and the Board of Pharmaceutial Specialities made me the “drug czar”.

At the end of the day, you are still a BIG DICK

And at the end of the day, you are still a whacko religious fanatic, acts29 and your IP address is still on my ban list.

I’d ask you what you did for a living, or how you would have dealt with this situation “better than me,” but you’ll never see that and I don’t care…

hey bitch how about instead of acting like your the man for teaching everyone a lesson you should be shuting the fuck up. First no one cares about this story how is it funny how is it satisfieng to read??? Your a fuckin bitch and an asshole face it no one likes you, your probably fat and even more likely a republican…..fuck off theres enough assholes on the internet

You can read my reply to this assclown HERE.

This also caused an updated in the Policies and Rules (AKA The Law).

ha! good stuff. that managers attitude is seriously fucked up. unfortunately we have to get stupid people to be the managers though, because we need the useful intelligent ones to do the actual work.

in NH the bad laminate or cracked ID makes it non valid too and if its not valid how can they use it? I don’t see how the manager can not understand…you didn’t make the law. If it were me I wouldn’t have sold the guy it even after he went to the manager, they cant force you to break the law and if they try to get you to when you obviously don’t want to they’re the asshole not you.

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Stupid smurfs, you can smell the chemicals seeping from them when they come in.

/agree. I hate it when non-pharmacy staff gets involved with issues they have little-no knowledge of. I wish sometimes that I had a pharmacist that wasn’t too timid to stick up for their decisions and tell these people to butt out.