Winning the meth battle

While I’m glad that production is down in the States, I can’t help but wonder if we will see an increase in Methamphetamine being brought over the border.

Regardless, it’s good to know one less Meth lab will be leaking garbage and exploding.

On another note, I wonder if those labs really do “explode” as I’ve heard people say.

-Richard

Oh my gosh yes. Big time. Massive fires. Anhydrous ammonia is nasty shit…

I had a mailman some time ago get burned up in a meth lab fire. We, of course, made the assumption that he was using is mail route to distribute his drugs — and making the trips in record time due to his amphetamine use!

The logical conclusion would be that they’re getting rid of the small-time labs that were distributing locally, setting up space for a much wider operation to come in and take over. It’s likely that the local ones were less well organized, easier to locate, shut down, and prosecute. The article talks about lab count decreasing, but I’d like to see utilization statistics, possession/distribution arrests and deaths before forming an opinion on just how effective this legislation really is. Based on historical results, I’d say they’re just driving the process further underground.

Honestly, I voted keep it OTC and behind the counter pretty much for selfish reasons. I’m still being screamed at by customers three years later and the idea of explaining that it’s now an RX item made me cry. Metaphorically, but still…

Being in one of the “Meth capitals”, I can tell you the legislation has worked here. About every other month, a deputy comes in and asks for our PSE records. Sometimes, an undercover cop will just hang out near the pharmacy. I’ve had deputies give me their cell #s to call if a certain person comes in. They’re really cracking down. I have a stack of subpoenas to prove it! The meth use problem may not be going away, due to influx of drug from Mexico, but at least we don’t have as many labs here anymore to toxify our neighborhoods.

I think it is great that the Meth Labs are having a harder time finding supplies. My concern with this bill is it seems like it is working on the back end of the problem and not the front end. It concerns me also that all OTCs will go BTC because a few overzelous politicians had an idea that in this case may have worked. It takes 1,000 tabs of PSE to make 30gm of PSE. I don’t see in rural MN, WI, MI, or anywhere for that matter finding 6 or more pharmacies that they can stock up at. in rural areas there usually isn’t more than one or two pharmacies. Also the cost of gas is high so traveling to larger cities to obtain PSE is more difficult and frankly people can’t afford food let alone meth. It’s a nice feel good law but we don’t take into account where most meth manufacturers get their supply of PSE. Most likely it comes from wholesalers and manufacturers because you need a large quantity in order to produce a small amount. It’s made our lives at the pharmacy counter, when we have 12 people in line at 3pm, harder because we have to “book” everyone that buys some Sudafed. Although I think it was a law with good intentions, I fear it has missed the mark and the drug traffickers will find a new way to supply their customers. Let’s face it we spend more fighting the drug trade because we criminalized it, some for reasons that aren’t based on science, and have created a larger problem because of it. If we had doctors maintaining addicts and not drug dealers, we would have less crime, less gang activity, less people in prison for non violent offenses and that would cost taxpayers and society as a whole a lot less. These misguided laws, even though they have good intent, are only going to drive the trade further underground where it is more dangerous.

Actually — it doesn’t take as much pseudoephedrine as you might think to make methamphetamine. I’m not exactly sure of the prices, but I recently talked to a member of the board of pharmacy in my state that told me that those making the meth buy the PSE from anyone and everyone that can get it. They essentially swap the PSE for a little bit of meth or cash. They offer 75 bucks for a box of 12 hour PSE and 150 bucks for box of 24 hr PSE. I am sure the board member knew what he was talking about as he is likely to be informed of that kind of stuff.

forgot to add the fact that Desoxyn and similar drugs like Adderall are legally distributed to patietns and are basically the same thing.

No, they’re not. Did your PDR tell you that? Adderall is a mixed amphetamine salt whereas Desoxyn is Methamphetamine — as I just explained in the comment below. That METH (referring to a Methyl group) makes the drug a much more potent sympathomimetic. Then, it is metabolized to amphetamine — which does the same thing — mimic the sympathetic nervous system. Double whammy 2/2 active metabolite!

That extra carbon and two extra hydrogens really does the trick!

oh and I forgot what about Desoxyn and Adderall they are very addictive basically are methamphetamine and they can legally be prescribed to whoever the prescriber feels is worthy. I see lots of patients who use it, they sell them all the time at school I’m sure.

Desoxyn is a 5mg tablet. Most meth users inject hundreds of milligrams of this stuff. You’re comparing to unequal things.

I actually dispense more Cocaine HCl than I ever would Desoxyn. I keep a stock bottle of Cocaine — I don’t keep Desoxyn. “Cocaine? What? You can dispense COCAINE? Won’t somebody please think of the children!!!!” — It’s used in nasal surgeries to stimulate mucus secretion as far as I know…

I gotta say, from an honest, average consumer with no insurance standpoint, I really couldn’t afford it if PSE went RX only. Going to the doctor for $70+ just to get a scrip for some $6 PSE to treat a minor cold? You’d get alot more sick people going to work and sneezing in your food, that’s for sure.

Heh. PSE doesn’t treat sneezes. It only treats nasal congestion. Lots of people take it when they don’t need it — “it’s behind the counter so it must be good…right?” — Most people would be better served to take a claritin a day for allergies and get ahead of the symptoms as opposed to taking PSE to treat the congestion once it presents.

I do get what you’re saying about the cost. Someone should do an analysis comparing that to the cost of busting meth labs, meth related deaths, cost of enforcement, etc. If that ever did happen, I would imagine most docs would call it in w/o an office visit…

….why why why did i read your response to CphTworkingonRN….now all I see are little methyl groups attaching themselves to other more complex molecules…MAKE IT STOOOOOP! Are they chiral? What’s the configuration? What are their bonds… oh god…it never ends…

In TN we have a statewide database based on driver’s license that 90% of the chain stores can access. So, if you get PSE at Walgreens, the CVS down the street will know it when you try to buy some.

I don’t think it would be a great loss to the OTC shelves if PSE went Rx-Only. In fact, it should be a C-IV or C-V drug. If pharmacists have to deal with controlling the distribution of this drug, let it be totally within the practice of pharmacy, and not just as annoying busy work that we do for the DEA and that could just as easily be done by the same people who check IDs for cigarettes and alcoholic beverages.

Long story short we did the best thing we could do getting the PSE off the store shelves so the tweakers are not running with an outdoor garbage bag with their arm pulling all of the PSE off the shelf, stuffing it in the bag and running out the door with it.

Let’s be honest Phenylephrine is relatively worthless and I would rather use a bulb syringe to try to drain my sinuses than use Phenylephrine. If people really want to get a lot of PSE they just go to Mexico and buy it by the 50lb bag and bring it back. It’s not hard. If you want to make the tweakers work harder to make meth so be it, but all you’re going to do is make people like you and I suffer for 4 days to get into the Dr. to get some damn PSE. If you really want to start an argument….. How about we bring back PPA ??? Legend only

Okay. Let’s start the argument. I’ll skip the part where I call you a stupid ass for comparing PSE and PPA. PPA was proven to cause hemorrhagic stroke when used in normal doses in 500 people per year. PSE can cause the same types of events but generally only in high-doses or after long term use - even then it’s somewhat abnormal.

So, we need to convert to combinations of nasal sprays and consistent use of loratadine and cetirizine.

I heard from a pharmacy student friend in Australia that they are trying to ban PSE products in their country. It was getting to a point where people were robbing the pharmacies for Sudafed and ignoring the opiods and benzodiazepines.

I’m sure you are aware that the meth addicts steal scrap metal to pay for their habit. It really sucks, because they stole my fence posts and now my burros and goats are loose.

That sucks. In my area, they have stolen the huge guard rails that protect cars from sliding off the road into a huge valleys…Talk about amoral!

If I see a goat running around, I’ll snag him — and laugh my ass off at a free range goat!